Ningde era: the related indicators of solid-state batteries are still a long way from commercialization.

On the evening of May 25th, Ningde Times (300750) released the latest record sheet of investor relations activities. The company said that it has been studying solid-state batteries for many years, but there are still some scientific problems in all-solid-state batteries that have not been solved at this stage. For example, the difficulties of solid-state diffusion and liquid diffusion are not of the same order of magnitude, and it is difficult to do a good job of real solid-state batteries before they are completely solved.

Ningde Times said that there are three steps in the commercialization of solid-state battery technology: the first is to study the feasibility of the technical route; the second is the product route, which turns R & D technology into a product is a process of engineering optimization, such as how to design safety. The third is the commodity route, because the commodity requires profit, it must be feasible in commercialization, and it requires that the goods produced can be sold and realize profits and then re-invest in research and development, and so on. The company has developed solid-state batteries for many years and is in the first echelon, which can make solid-state battery samples, but the relevant indicators are still a long way from commercialization.

The following are the details of the exchange:

1. The company has expanded very rapidly in the past two years. Has there been any change in the company's management style and organizational structure in the process of rapid expansion of the number of people and regional expansion? Will there be any change in the future?

Answer: the company mainly matches the corresponding management according to the business operation. At present, the company cooperates with well-known external consulting institutions to explore the protection of human resources, organizational structure, incentive mechanism and other aspects in the context of the rapid development of the company. The company's business direction has been upgraded to three strategic directions to provide customers with comprehensive solutions for new energy, which also requires further optimization of the organizational structure. at present, management spends more energy on improving the level of scientific management and organizational structure optimization.

2. At present, the global political and economic situation is becoming more complex. How does the company view the global situation, and how to ensure the smooth progress of the company's globalization strategy?

A: the company's cooperation with global customers is long-term, the company continues to strengthen communication with overseas customers, and localize the layout according to the needs of overseas customers.

3. Is solid state battery a development direction? What preparations has the company made? Will the capacity of investment become a burden? What does the company think of some radical guidelines in the market?

A: the company has studied solid-state batteries for many years, but at this stage, there are still some scientific problems in all-solid-state batteries that have not been solved. For example, the difficulty of solid-state diffusion and liquid diffusion is not of the same order of magnitude. Before it is completely solved, it is difficult to make a real solid-state battery fundamentally.

There are three steps in the commercialization of technology: the first is to study the feasibility of the technical route; the second is the product route, in which turning R & D technology into a product is a process of engineering optimization, such as how to design safety; and the third is the commodity route. because the commodity requires profit, it must be feasible in commercialization, which requires that the goods produced can be sold and realized and then reinvested in research and development. The company has developed solid-state batteries for many years and is in the first echelon, which can make solid-state battery samples, but the relevant indicators are still a long way from commercialization.

4. Cost optimization involves upstream integration. Where is the boundary of the upstream integration layout of the company? How to balance technology and cost?

A: the upstream layout of the company is to ensure the supply of the industrial chain, give confidence to upstream suppliers, and make the company's supply chain more resilient. The company makes more technical layouts to achieve cost balance.

5. How to understand the safety of power battery? What are the things that companies are good at?

Answer: generally speaking, it needs to be improved from the aspects of material, battery, system design, use and maintenance, after-sales service, regular inspection, laws and regulations, etc. The most important thing for the company to implement extreme manufacturing is to upgrade the random defects of the cell from ppm to ppb, by three orders of magnitude. When the cell reaches the ppb level, the company designs the non-thermal diffusion solution into pack, and already has the related patent.

6. in terms of competition, car factories have begun to build batteries, and there are many new car-building forces. What do you think?

A: the professional division of labor between car companies and battery enterprises is completely different. Car companies are good at machinery and electronics, but batteries are involved in electrochemical systems, and car companies often have a lower understanding of electrochemistry than professional battery enterprises. The company has a deep accumulation in the field of power batteries, has a deep understanding of batteries, and there is a lot of room for improvement in battery technology in the future. for example, what the company is doing now is the first generation, the second generation and the third generation of lithium iron phosphate in the future.

7. Electric vehicles and energy storage are growing rapidly, but recycling is not perfect. How to look at battery recycling? When can recycling catch up with the development of the industry?

A: battery recycling is valuable. The recovery of ternary and iron lithium is valuable, and the current recovery rate of nickel, cobalt and manganese is more than 99%. At present, iron phosphate and graphite can also be recycled, because it is economical, and there is a broad space for the development of recycling in the future.

However, at present, the power and responsibility arrangement of waste battery collection and recycling in car factories and battery enterprises is not clear enough, and it is expected to be further resolved in the future.

8. The company formally put forward three major strategic directions. How to position the company in the future, and what is the deficiency in the transition from a battery factory to a solution provider?

Answer: the core of the three strategic development directions is to make a good battery. Only with continuous technological progress can we make a good business model. For example, in the field of energy storage, the company achieves a cycle life of 1.2-15000 times and grafts the capabilities of partners such as EPC, power plant design and power survey to expand their own capabilities. The same is true in the field of electrified and intelligent integrated applications. The company will be carbon neutral as soon as possible, such as light storage power stations can be used as energy sources.

9. Judging from the long-term development of the Ningde era, what do you think is your biggest concern now? Or what capabilities do you think the company urgently needs to build?

A: at present, the company is mainly thinking about how to do a good business in the context of changes in the international pattern, the shortage of supply chain resources and the shortage of local supply, which the company has also discussed with mainstream customers.

10. The progress of battery is more inclined to asymptotic innovation, the innovation of materials and electrochemical systems, the iteration of materials has slowed down, and the innovation of process materials is accelerating. what do you think of this direction and speed?

A: the company hopes to master the pace of innovation and push different R & D achievements step by step. With the improvement of the company's R & D level and R & D efficiency, the company expects that there will be a lot of material and structural innovation in the next 10 years. When technological innovation becomes a product and when a product becomes a commodity requires commercial and time considerations, including equipment and supply chain matching.

11. Overseas mainframe factories, represented by Tesla, have also begun to make batteries. what does the company think of their relationship with them?

A: the cooperation between the company and Tesla is long-term, but the proportion of products supplied will not account for 100%. Tesla will also produce part of it. Companies and car companies are talking about more cooperation, and car companies are also looking for help to find a solution, but it is not easy for the lithium industry. From the perspective of the global lithium industry, there are not many companies with strong profitability, whether consumer batteries or power battery companies.

12. How is the cooperation between the company and Tesla going? The progress of the company's German factory? And the cooperation with ATL, the other party has to pay 150 million US dollars to the company every year. What are the reasons for this?

A: since 2020, the company has further deepened cooperation with Tesla.

The construction of the company's plant in Germany is progressing smoothly, and energy production is expected by the end of this year due to the slight impact of the epidemic.

The company's technology license to ATL is mainly in the area of lithium battery systems, which helps its competitiveness in consumer batteries, and ATL can generate more revenue as a result.

14. The rapid progress of Intel is due to the fact that Microsoft has put forward a lot of requirements. After the battery life reaches a certain extent, is there this demand to support the company's technological progress?

A: market demand is more likely to promote the progress of science and technology, and the energy demand for batteries in cars will gradually increase, so the market's pursuit of battery energy density is long-term and continuous, as is the demand for batteries in subdivisions such as drones.

15. What is the layout consideration of the company in the photovoltaic field? the photovoltaic industry is also a huge industry. What is the current positioning of the company?

A: the company's advantage lies in material research and development and structural design. The company hopes to develop, design and synthesize materials such as perovskite to achieve higher efficiency. At present, the company invests a lot of time in material research and development, and so on can come up with the technology, products and commodities that they think are more reliable and then discuss them.

16. What kind of competition will the lithium industry present in the long run? Will it get a high share of consumer batteries like ATL, or will it be relatively scattered?

A: the characteristics of the industry determine the competition pattern of the market to a certain extent. It is not easy for the lithium industry to do well, it is not only talent-intensive, capital-intensive, but also risk-intensive, technology-intensive, only a good system can achieve a higher market share.